Home > Rants > A misogynist, am I? Prove it.

A misogynist, am I? Prove it.

February 21st, 2010

I was accused of being a misogynist, today.

Well, actually, it was yesterday, but I just saw it today.

I think that’s a first for me.  At least, to my face.  Although I suppose people probably have made the reasonable assumption that, since I don’t normally comment, and almost never on other people’s comments, I don’t read comments.  So maybe they didn’t think I’d see it.

Which, you know, what the fuck? I may have problems with my own opinion of myself, but others’ opinions of me? Seriously, man, if you’ve got something to say come say it.  You might be surprised.  I might tell you you’re absolutely right.  I might also point out which is your ass and which is a hole in the ground, but you never know.

My best friends, second only to Master, are women.  At least one of them is a stereotypical female from start to finish.  She’s jealous, and finicky, and petty, and catty, and frustratingly stubborn, and a drama queen, and an attention whore, and flighty, and impetuous, and… And I love her to bits for all her faults.

I’m bisexual.  And before Master, the only relationships I could make work for any period of time were with women.

I have six daughters, for Christ’s sake.  Granted, I admittedly hate one of them, but I have good reason, and none of them have anything to do with her being female.

A misogynist.  Ha.

For the record, just in case anyone’s confused, being an owned female who doesn’t agree with all the points and propaganda of feminism does not a misogynist make.

I have no problem whatsoever with the empowerment of women, up to and until the point of equality.  Anything beyond that smacks of misandry, and I will not condone it, even if that gives people the incorrect impression that I hate women.

Come on, ladies.  From the tone of the comment, it seems the general consensus among the sex blogging community is that I am, in fact a misogynist.  So put your money where your mouth is.  Tell me why.  Prove it, and I’ll concede the point.

But, honestly? I call bullshit.

Edited to add my response on Brit’s blog to Sarahbear’s comment:

I have to say I was not the least bit surprised to see that the two biggest misogynists I’ve seen in this community (Eliot and Rayne) were agreeing whole-heartedly with C&B’s post. Unfortunately, nothing is ever going to change with those sorts of attitudes. When we choose to get offended by things and become defensive, rather than see the truth in them and try to apply that truth towards change, we’ll just remain in a fucked up place.

Wait… what? You don’t even know me.

So because I’m friends with Eliot, owned property, don’t stand by feminist propaganda, and agree with, what I understood as, a declaration that if people as a whole would stop buying into privilege, it would cease to exist, I hate women? You guys sure are funny.

I don’t hate women. I’m firmly bisexual. I love women.

I hate stupid women. I hate women who blindly follow the herd, rather than forming their own opinions. And would you look at that? I hate stupid men who blindly follow the herd without forming their own opinions, too. So I guess that makes me an equal opportunity hater. ~smiles sweetly~



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  1. February 21st, 2010 at 17:54 | #1

    I don’t think so. I saw the comment, I think that it was… sort of silly. I don’t think that being owned makes a misogynist. Also, just because you don’t tout out about feminism in every thing you write doesn’t make you a misogynist either. It was an amusing comment to read that’s for sure. It made me scratch my head and wonder if they had you confused with someone else!!!

  2. February 21st, 2010 at 19:55 | #2

    Whether or not you’re a misogynist or not, I think that the reason your idea of yourself and Sarahbear’s were so disparate is because you’re using the word “misogynist” too literally. Often, misogynist is used in a much looser way, moreso someone that expresses negative attitudes of women as a group, or someone that may express sexist opinions. And your argument about having female friends or being bisexual doesn’t negate potential misogyny (I’m not calling you one here, I’m explaining why, if you were considered one, this argument wouldn’t be valid) because the fact that someone holds misogynist views may not prevent him or her from having positive relationships with some women.

    That being said, here are some aspects of misogyny that aren’t as blatant as “ZOMG, I HATE WOMEN”:
    Victim-blaming regarding rape. Now, while you’ve blatantly said that no one deserves to be raped, when I’ve asked about that, you’ve made comments that imply that women should be the ones to try to avoid A, B, and C to avoid getting raped, which does place some responsibility on the victim. In many eyes (mine included, but I already expressed that in the comments of that one post), that is victim-blaming.

    Stereotyping.
    At least one of them is a stereotypical female from start to finish. She’s jealous, and finicky, and petty, and catty, and frustratingly stubborn, and a drama queen, and an attention whore, and flighty, and impetuous, and… And I love her to bits for all her faults.
    Come on. You just stereotyped women here, like whoa. “Jealous,” “finicky,” “petty,” “catty,” “drama queen…” All that’s missing is “hysterical.”

    Other more subtle examples (and I’m not saying you’re guilty of any or all of these, but again, I’m trying to explain it in a more accessible way) include: not trusting women (whether to do a job correctly, to know what they’re talking about, etc), believing that women are all a herd and don’t have their own opinions (hence why we would all be in agreement about something), calling women “sluts” or “whores” (obviously not in the D/s sense), etc. It’s not a blatant expression of hating women, but more subtle behaviors and words.

    There’s a pretty good list of stuff that’s misogynist here, and it’s not all really blatant.

    In all honesty, do I think you’re a misogynist? Sometimes, yes. But I also think that it stems more from just being unfamiliar with some of the terms and concepts that people like to throw around, assuming that everyone knows what they’re talking about. Often, when you explain your position better, I will understand where you’re coming from. However, regarding rape, for one, I definitely think that many of your feelings on it are misogynist in nature. But I’ve already told you that 🙂

    Being a slave, or an owned female has nothing to do with it, as I’m one, too.

  3. February 21st, 2010 at 23:44 | #3

    Hi. I’m the person who called you a misogynist. I’m not particularly bothered that you saw it. Let’s not try to turn this into something it’s not and make it seem like I was scared to insult you to your face.

    There are two reasons I haven’t left comments over here previously.

    1. I really don’t see the point in coming over here and making a stink because we disagree about shit. This is your space for you to talk all you like about your opinions on shit. I’d lose a lot of respect for someone who used my blog as a platform to tell me their personal opinions about me.

    2. The only blog I felt compelled to comment on had already been saturated with comments left by Saraid, Epiphora and Britni that basically stated everything I would have wanted to say. If you were still defending your opinion after everything they said then there really wasn’t a point in me commenting.

    Now for the meat of your post. Proving you are a misogynist, or perhaps at least that you occasionally behave like one. Britni pretty much hit the nail on the head, but I’ll elaborate a bit.

    You stereotype women as jealous, finicky, petty, catty, stubborn, attention whorish drama queens. Women stupidly follow the herd, without forming their own opinions. You did so in this very post and in the response to my comment on Brit’s blog.

    You are a victim blamer, suggesting that women should alter their behavior to prevent rapes and suggesting that it was their own poor choices that led to their rapes. That there are only a special series of circumstances where women aren’t responsible for the crimes that were commited against them. You have made posts about this opinion on your blog and left comments around on other people’s blogs about this.

    Saying that you can’t be a misogynist because you like to fuck women (and be in relationships with them) is like saying you can’t be a racist because you have black friends. It doesn’t work because, like Britni said, there’s more to misogyny than hating women. It’s about the tone of the things you say and where your opinions come from. Why you think that women are x, y and z. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say you’re sexist or prejudice against women than to say you’re a misogynist. It just seems like semantics to me though.

    My opinion has nothing to do with you being part of a consensual D/s relationship and it surely does not represent a consensus of opinions among the sex blogging community. It is my opinion, and mine alone. If you think it’s bullshit, that’s fine, but you asked for reasons and here they are.

  4. February 21st, 2010 at 23:57 | #4

    My goodness. What did you get yourself into now??

  5. alwaysHistora
    February 22nd, 2010 at 00:06 | #5

    Fuck ’em all, rayne. i’ll be a misogynist, victim-blaming stereo-typing mistrusting bitch right alongside you.

    Oh hell. i hate men and women. Almost equally.

    luv ya, woman. 🙂

  6. February 22nd, 2010 at 00:56 | #6

    @alwaysHistora Well then you just get to be a misanthrope! 🙂

  7. February 22nd, 2010 at 07:56 | #7

    @jonsbabydoll Lol. Thanks.

    @kaya You say that as if I’m constantly stirring up drama, or something! Sheesh! <3

    @alwaysHistora Yay! I should really introduce you to Eliot so we can start a club!

  8. February 22nd, 2010 at 09:50 | #8

    Britni TheVadgeWig :
    Often, misogynist is used in a much looser way, moreso someone that expresses negative attitudes of women as a group, or someone that may express sexist opinions.

    And therein lies the problem. If you’re (you universal, not you specific) going to throw around insults, at least have the common decency to mean what you say.

    Victim-blaming regarding rape. Now, while you’ve blatantly said that no one deserves to be raped, when I’ve asked about that, you’ve made comments that imply that women should be the ones to try to avoid A, B, and C to avoid getting raped, which does place some responsibility on the victim. In many eyes (mine included, but I already expressed that in the comments of that one post), that is victim-blaming.

    Victim-blaming does not equate with misogyny, just like believing women should be more careful about the situations they allow themselves to get into, protect themselves a little better – cause gods know no one else is gonna – does not equate with victim-blaming. There’s a huge difference in honestly trying to help someone by saying, “You know if you hadn’t been in that dark alley, in the middle of the projects, in New York City, alone and defenseless, you might have been able to at the very least protect yourself.” and saying (taking the example made by the woman who posted the article you linked) “Well what the hell did she think being at the bar at 3AM.”

    I blame myself, in part, for my own attacks, but from where I sit, that’s my prerogative. It’s also what helped me cope. Being able to look at the situation and say, “Well, I can up the odds of this never happening again by not doing A, B, and C anymore.” made it easier on me to handle what had happened to me. And who the fuck are you, or anyone else, to say I have blatant disregard for women based on how I handled my own healing?

    Stereotyping.
    …Come on. You just stereotyped women here, like whoa. “Jealous,” “finicky,” “petty,” “catty,” “drama queen…” All that’s missing is “hysterical.”

    No, I didn’t stereotype women. Stereotyping women would be saying all women are like that. Instead, I said that my friend has a lot of qualities that are considered stereotypical of women. It’s the truth. That it happens to coincide with the stereotype women face has nothing to do with anything. And I’ll not pretend the stereotype doesn’t exist just because it doesn’t paint a pretty picture.

    Just like there are lazy, stupid black people, dirty Mexicans, white people with entitlement syndrome, Muslims that are terrorists and Puerto Rican women who are crazy, there are women who live up to the female stereotype. It wouldn’t be a stereotype if there weren’t at least some cases (and usually, the loudest of the group, to boot) of it being true.

    not trusting women (whether to do a job correctly, to know what they’re talking about, etc)

    Not being interested in being dominated by a woman has nothing to do with trusting them. I trust them just fine, provided they don’t give me a reason not to, same as men. I’m just not interested in being controlled by one. Also my prerogative… until M says it’s not.

    believing that women are all a herd and don’t have their own opinions (hence why we would all be in agreement about something)

    Obviously women have opinions. And I’ve never once said that they’re all a herd.

    calling women “sluts” or “whores” (obviously not in the D/s sense)

    If you mean when a person’s angry at a single woman and uses a derogatory term, then by all means, label me a misogynist. But in that case, damn near the whole world’s a misogynist and I’m in good company.

    It’s not a blatant expression of hating women, but more subtle behaviors and words.

    So basically, I’m being so judged, by people who don’t even know me, based solely on their own perceptions, and not my actual thoughts, opinions or beliefs. That’s awesome!

    There’s a pretty good list of stuff that’s misogynist here, and it’s not all really blatant.

    So I guess it’s probably another strike against me that I sort of chuckled at one of the jokes in that article. I mean, it’s funny. I laugh at jokes that are derogatory to men, too. And animals. And white people. And people of other races. And religious people.

    Jokes are meant to be funny, where I come from, even when they’re offensive. Maybe especially when they’re offensive. I’d rather laugh than be offended.

    But I also think that it stems more from just being unfamiliar with some of the terms and concepts that people like to throw around, assuming that everyone knows what they’re talking about.

    Oh, right. I keep forgetting to pick up that damn decoder ring before venturing out into the blogging community. I’ll have to grab one this weekend. (While that was sarcasm, and it was aimed at the blogging community as a whole, it was a joke.)

    Being a slave, or an owned female has nothing to do with it, as I’m one, too.

    I realize that. I used it because I honestly could not fathom what could possess someone to call me a misogynist. I still can’t.

  9. February 22nd, 2010 at 12:50 | #9

    To make sure no one’s confused, I edited this post to include the comment Sarahbear refers to here. Just in case someone was inclined to believe I actually did say all women “stupidly follow the herd, without forming their own opinions”.

    Sarahbear :
    Hi. I’m the person who called you a misogynist.

    I know who you are, but thanks for introducing yourself to my readers.

    I’m not particularly bothered that you saw it. Let’s not try to turn this into something it’s not and make it seem like I was scared to insult you to your face.

    First, let me apologize. That comment wasn’t really aimed at you. It was, more or less, aimed at the fact that no one seems to have the balls to confront me on my opinions to my face. Or take even a second to consider my motivation, rather than how my opinion affects their own moral agenda and/or belief system. Instead, they’d rather label me behind my back simply because I disagree with them.

    I didn’t mean to suggest you were commenting there thinking I wouldn’t see it out of an interest in being catty or backbiting or gossiping or whatever. More an interest of… well, basically what you said. Not feeling the need to school a person on his or herself in their private space.

    You stereotype women as jealous, finicky, petty, catty, stubborn, attention whorish drama queens. Women stupidly follow the herd, without forming their own opinions. You did so in this very post and in the response to my comment on Brit’s blog.

    Actually, what I said in this post was that my friend behaves in a way that matches the stereotypes women face. I didn’t say all women are stereotypical females. I didn’t say all women fit the stereotype.

    But, as I said in my response to Britni, the stereotype exists. That’s not important. What’s important is whether or not people buy into it. I don’t. And seeing stereotypical traits in my friend doesn’t mean that I do. It means that I have a friend who fits a commonly-held stereotype.

    And as for my comment about hating stupid people who blindly follow the herd (Cause let’s not get it twisted. That is what I said.), I did not say, or even imply, that all women are stupid and follow the herd. I said some men and women are.

    And my point wasn’t that I think you are stupid and blindly follow the herd. My point was those are the only types of people who get under my skin. Whether or not you’re that type of person, I couldn’t know, because aside from talking about lingerie we both have, and a couple comments on Eden Cafe, I don’t know you. Which is why I would never deign to label you. But that’s just me.

    You said on Brit’s blog:

    You have absolutely no idea when a woman is being ’stupid’ or ‘blindly following the herd’ without forming her own opinions. Just because someone shares a viewpoint with a group of people doesn’t mean that they haven’t made an educated decision about that opinion.

    Actually, there are many ways to tell if someone has put forth some effort educating themselves about their convictions. The biggest is whether what they’re spouting has any merit, or if it’s just a load of bullshit propaganda that you hear touted everywhere.

    Britni has actually researched her beliefs. You can hear it in her posts. Whether or not you have, once again, I couldn’t say. I don’t often read what you have to say. (At least I’m honest.) But not for any other reason than, once again, I don’t know you, and I really don’t have a whole hell of a lot of time on my hands, most days.

    I think I read one of your posts ripping Eliot a new one because of her “fat hatred”. I think I also commented on it, saying that people like myself really do need to just get off their asses and eat less. I mean, maybe it’s changed recently, but in the past, if I exercised and ate mostly the way dieticians say I should, I lost weight. Yet here I sit, behind a computer, eating mostly shit food and only getting up to either get more food or go to the bathroom. I am my own problem. I’m sorry if that offends you, but it’s the truth.

    However! I know that not everyone who is overweight can handle it that easily. And like I said, maybe I can’t anymore, either. I’m getting older. But in the past, I’ve been able to. And I’m sure others have, too.

    And if that wasn’t you, I apologize. Lol.

    You are a victim blamer, suggesting that women should alter their behavior to prevent rapes and suggesting that it was their own poor choices that led to their rapes. That there are only a special series of circumstances where women aren’t responsible for the crimes that were commited against them. You have made posts about this opinion on your blog and left comments around on other people’s blogs about this.

    Suggesting women not travel in dangerous areas alone, or go to all male parties where drugs or alcohol are involved, or any of the other suggestions I made in that post is not victim-blaming. It’s, from where I sit, victim-empowering. It’s reinforcing knowledge we were all taught as children. Reinforcing knowledge I, and other women like me, ignored as just something Mom and Dad said to control us, not advice that should necessarily be heeded.

    Putting yourself in a bad situation and then acting surprised when something bad happens is just plain silly. You wouldn’t walk in front of a bus and then, after it hits you, say “Well, I didn’t expect it to hurt!” The same goes for any of the possible scenarios I mentioned.

    I don’t care what any of you think. I used to know some of the people who lurk in dark alleys hoping some unsuspecting rube, male or female, will come bumbling along alone. Alone you’re easily frightened and more likely to do what you’re told. And I once knew a man who could rob a guy blind and send him on his way, and the guy would feel a little funny about it, but be pretty sure he gave his stuff away willingly.

    I’d rather protect all human beings, not just men or women, against people like the ones I used to know, than let them wander blindly into a bad situation (Cause some of them don’t intentionally wind up in the situations they find themselves in. I’ll admit that. But they still need to learn ways to avoid ending up in them again.) and have their asses handed to them. That’s a far cry from victim-blaming. And if you can’t see that, that’s your problem.

    It’s about the tone of the things you say and where your opinions come from. Why you think that women are x, y and z.

    Actually, I’d venture to say that you ignored, completely, where my opinion on the phrase “All men are potential rapists.” comes from. I’d also venture to say that you’ve ignored, completely, where my opinion on why women should protect themselves comes from.

    I’m sorry, but do you honestly believe that in today’s world a woman should have the expectation of walking down a dark alley, alone, with nothing to protect herself and not getting hurt? I mean, while I would absolutely love for the world to straighten up that much, the truth of the matter is, it’s getting worse, not better. And maybe that means that it will get better. They say it’s always darkest before the storm. I hope to the Great Purple Cabbage that it will get better.

    But for right now? How ’bout not just expecting society to mold to the ideals you think it should over night? How ’bout looking out for yourself? I mean, we call it “risk aware consensual kink” (though, if I’m to be honest, I have no clue whether or not you’re involved, in any way, shape or form, in BDSM) for a reason. Because we learn the risks and then decide whether or not we think it’s worth it.

    Personally, I think it’s worth altering my behavior to avoid high risk situations if it means I up the chances of avoiding being raped without my permission again. If you can’t make that decision for yourself, then the real question isn’t whether or not I’m a misogynist. I’ll let you figure out for yourself what it is.

    Perhaps it would be more accurate to say you’re sexist or prejudice against women than to say you’re a misogynist. It just seems like semantics to me though.

    I am neither sexist, nor prejudiced against women. So, no. That would not be more accurate.

    It surely does not represent a consensus of opinions among the sex blogging community. It is my opinion, and mine alone.

    Perhaps it’s not the general consensus. I mean, I know for a fact my friends know better. But your tone made it sound like it’s generally accepted by at least some of you that I’m a misogynist. You’re wrong.

    If you think it’s bullshit, that’s fine

    I do.

    but you asked for reasons

    I did.

    and here they are.

    And thank you for being so forthright.

  10. February 23rd, 2010 at 22:49 | #10

    See, this is what happens when they give us shoes and birth control and let us out of the kitchen long enough to talk to each other.

    *runs…*

  11. February 24th, 2010 at 09:40 | #11

    @kitten Hee! I love you.

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