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I’m starting it! What d’ya think?

November 3rd, 2009

discussionnightA while back, Kaya posted a question asking whether or not it can be considered submission if the owner always only makes the submissive do things he or she wants to do.  I might have already answered it.  I really don’t remember.

Over on her site, I said:

Well… If that’s the case, what happens when you run out of things you won’t do?

Cause, like, my limits are waning. Things I never would have done in a million years seven years ago, I’ve done recently without batting an eyelash.

So if you run out of things you won’t do – which, you know, could happen, maybe… or at least, I could run out of things within the realm of things *He’ll* do – do you cease being submissive?

I dunno, kiddo.

And then I started thinking about my batty friend and her post about the little orders her owner gives her to keep her in an active happy sub place.  Which then brought me to Kaya’s recent post about topping from the bottom.  And then it all got mixed up in my head and I started wondering if I top from the bottom.  Either because neither of us have noticed it or because Master allows it because He doesn’t mind so much.

And is it “topping from the bottom” if it’s not my fault? Like, if I made a suggestion and He liked the idea and decided to go with it? Or if I’m just rambling away about how I’d do it if it were me and my way was more logical (Yes, I realize how improbable that is.  Work with me!) so He went with it? 

Wait.  Let me give you some back story.

Now to decide how far back I should go.

So not too long ago, Master and I had a spat about how He doesn’t read my writing.  I went on and on about how I write for Him (*cough*bullshit*cough* Don’t worry… He smelled it, too, and made me admit that I write for myself but appreciate His opinion.) and how part of the reason I stopped writing fiction is because He never reads it and gives me His opinion anymore.  That part’s true.  He stopped giving me input, and I feel like I’m cheating on Him when I show my writing to other people for opinions, so I don’t write.

Now… the fact of the matter is, He does eventually read my stuff.  Not to help me out.  Not because I live for His opinion.  Not because I want Him to.  But because He likes knowing what I’m up to and what runs through this head of mine.  Knowing what I’m thinking about and where my focus is helps Him to know which way to go with my training.

But reading my stuff, occasionally, gives Him ideas, too.

Let’s face it.  I express a lot of wants and needs and opinions and emotions in my writing.  Sometimes more than I am comfortable expressing to anyone face to face.  And with that much expression, it’s impossible for someone with an open mind to come here and not walk away with some new logic.  Even if it’s just, Stay away from the crazy slave who can’t spell “rain” correctly. So of course Master’s gonna leave here with some new ideas on how to handle me.

But is that topping from the bottom?

I won’t lie.  I don’t express my wants, needs and emotions out of some bizarre need to mentally masturbate myself or hear myself speak.  I express them hoping someone – namely, Master – will hear them and act on them.  Even if it’s just to tell me to shut the fuck up already.  Which is where I get stuck in the same rut Kaya was in.

The only real way to never top from the bottom is to never express a desire, need or opinion.  But even that becomes topping from the bottom when you have an owner who wants to know your opinion before making a decision.

So how do you know if you’re topping from the bottom? Where is the line drawn? Should a slave keep her thoughts to herself, regardless of how pressing, to avoid it?

I know I’m topping from the bottom by the angry red glow that fills Master’s face and the way His voice gets a little tight when He says, “Shut the fuck up and do as you’re told, cunt.  I am not your bitch.”  And I am not allowed to keep my thoughts to myself.  If He asks for my opinion, that means He wants it.  That’s when it becomes my job to give it.

But what about you?

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  1. November 3rd, 2009 at 12:00 | #1

    I’ve never considered expressing an opinion, desire or need to be topping from the bottom. But then I have never been in a dynamic that discourages me expressing my needs/wants/desires/opinions. My Top puts it this way: you can say anything you want, it’s my choice whether to listen and/or act on it. That’s what being on the Top means. Topping from the bottom has always had the connotation (to me) of manipulation. Stating a desire or need is not attempting to manipulate someone into doing what you want. Writing about your emotions or desires here–even with the hope that maybe he will act on those emotions/desires–isn’t manipulation (IMO.)

  2. November 3rd, 2009 at 12:19 | #2

    @Jade That’s pretty much where I’m at, too. And I’ve never been in a dynamic that discourages expression of self, either.
    .-= rayne´s last blog ..BDSM with Eccentricities =-.

  3. November 4th, 2009 at 11:06 | #3

    What you are describing isn’t topping from the bottom. It’s simply stating wants, perceived needs and desires. Sometimes even the strictest Master may want to do something nice for a slave, so I don’t see any reason for a slave not to express desires (at least, at the appropriate times). It’s how a slave reacts to being told “No” that’s important.

    Topping from the bottom is when a slave uses manipulation to get something contrary to their owners wishes. This could be by outright fighting with their owner, sullen expressions and/or tears (i.e. a type of emotional blackmail), or even “jokingly” bringing something up in mixed company where the slave knows their owner can’t react properly due to social constraints.

    As for your writing, I read it because I want to read it. It’s not simply to know what’s going on with you. I’d probably read more if you at least tried to turn some of my suggestions into stories.

  4. November 4th, 2009 at 15:10 | #4

    @Melen I should start writing them down, I guess. Cause I can only remember one or two, now. :/

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